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Front Page Titles (by Subject) Of THINGS and WORDS. - The Colloquies vol. 2
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Of THINGS and WORDS. - Desiderius Erasmus, The Colloquies vol. 2 [1518]Edition used:The Colloquies of Erasmus. Translated by Nathan Bailey. Edited with Notes, by the Rev. E. Johnson, M.A. (London: Reeves and Turner, 1878). Vol. 2.
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Of THINGS and WORDS.The Argument.p. 132This Colloquy concerning Things and Words, exposes the preposterous Judgments of some People, who are more ambitious of Names, than they are of the Things themselves; to be esteemed, than to deserve Esteem. In aiming at Things, it is better to be and to have; in avoiding Things, it is better to be thought to have them and be without them. It is the worst of Frauds to cheat a Friend. BEATUS and BONIFACE.BE.God bless you, Boniface. Bo.And God bless you heartily, Beatus. But I wish we were both of us answerable to our Names, you rich, and I handsom. Be.Why then, do you account it so small a Matter to have a great Name? Bo.Indeed I make very small Account of the Name, unless there be the Thing too. Be.But most Men are of another Mind. Bo.Perhaps they may be Mortals, but I don’t take ’em to be Men. Be.Nay, good Man, they are Men, unless you think there are now-a-Days Camels and Asses in the Shape of Men. Bo.I should sooner be of that Mind, than believe that they can be Men, who had rather have the Name than the Thing itself. Be.In some Sort of Things, I confess, that many had rather have the Thing, than the Name; but in many Things it is quite the contrary. Bo.I don’t very well take you in. Be.We have an Example of it in ourselves, you are call’d Boniface, and you have what you are call’d; but if you were to be depriv’d of either of them, had you rather have an ugly Face, or be call’d Cornelius? Bo.Why, indeed, I had rather be call’d Thersites, than have a Face as ugly as the Devil; whether I have a handsom one now or not, I can’t tell. Be.Then again, if I was rich, or must either part with my Wealth or my Name, I had rather be call’d Irus than be depriv’d of my Estate. I grant what you say to be true; and I am of Opinion it is the common Temper of those that enjoy Health, and other corporal Enjoyments. Bo.It is probable. Be.But how many may we see that had rather have the Name of being learned and pious, than to be learned and pious? Bo.I know a great many of this Sort of People. Be.Well then, is not the Name more esteem’d among us than the Thing itself? Bo.So it seems to be. Be.Now if we had a good Logician, who could properly define what a King, a Bishop, a Magistrate, and a Philosopher was, it is very likely we should find some among them, who are more for the Name than the Thing itself. Bo.He is really a King who aims at the Good of his People, and not his own; governing them by Law and Justice: And he a Bishop, who watches carefully over the Lord’s Flock: And he is a Magistrate, who sincerely studies the good of the Publick. And a Philosopher is one, who neglecting the Goods of Fortune, studies only to get the Endowments of the Mind. Be.By these you may see how many Examples of this Kind I could produce. Why truly, a great many. Be.Will you deny all these to be Men? Bo.I am afraid we shall sooner lose the Name of Men ourselves. Be.But if Man is a rational Animal, how contrary is it to Reason, that in the Conveniencies, rather than the real Goods of the Body, and in external Things, which Fortune gives and takes away at her Pleasure; we had rather have the Thing itself than the Name; and in the real Goods of the Mind, we put more Value upon the Name, than the Thing itself. Bo.It is an absurd Way of judging, if a Man did but consider it seriously. Be.And the Reason is quite the same in those Things, that are on the contrary Side. Bo.I expect what you’re going to say. Be.We may pass the same Judgment as to the Names of those things that are to be avoided, as has been given as to those that are to be desired. Bo.That’s plain. Be.For to be a Tyrant is more to be abhorr’d, than to have the Name; and if a Bishop be a bad Man, the Scripture calls him a Thief, and a Robber: These Names are not to be detested by us, so much as the Things themselves. Bo.In Truth I am of your Mind. Be.Do you infer the same as to the rest? Bo.I understand you perfectly well. Be.Don’t all Fools hate to be call’d Fools? Bo.Yes indeed, and more than other Folks. Be.Would not he be a Fool that should fish with a golden Hook, and prefer Glass before Jewels? that should put more Value upon his Horses, than his Wife and Children? Bo.He would be a greater Fool than Ben of the Minories. Be.Are not they such Fools that list themselves for Soldiers, and for the Sake of a poor Pay expose Body and Soul to Danger? who make it their Study to scrape up Riches, when their Minds are destitute of all good Science? who make their Cloaths and Houses fine, but let their Minds lie neglected and slovenly? who are very careful to preserve their Bodies in Health, and take no Care of their Minds, that are sick of mortal Diseases? and in the last Place, who for the Sake of enjoying the fleeting Pleasures of this Life, deserve eternal Torments? Bo.Reason itself obliges a Man to confess, that they are worse than Fools. Be.But tho’ every Place is full of such Fools as these, you can scarce find one that can bear to be call’d a Fool, tho’ they have no Aversion to being Fools. Bo.It is really so. Be.Come on, you know every Body hates to be call’d a Lyar or a Thief. Bo.They are very hateful Names, and not without Reason. Be.But for all that, tho’ to debauch another Man’s Wife is a greater Sin than Theft, some glory in the Name of Adulterers; and if you were to call them Thieves, they would draw their Swords upon you. Bo.This is a common Thing with a great many. Be.And again, tho’ many give themselves up to Whoring, and Drinking, and do it publickly; yet if you should call them Whoremasters, they would be highly offended at it. Bo.These glory in the Thing, and hate the Name that belongs to it. Be.There is scarce any Name that sounds harsher in our Ears, than the Name of a Lyar. Bo.I know some that would run a Man thro’, that should affront them by giving them the Lye. Be.But I wish they did as much abhor the Practice. Have you never had it happen to you, that he that promis’d to pay you what you lent him, upon a certain Day, fail’d you? Bo.Ay, very often; and tho’ he had sworn to it too, and not only once, but over and over. Be.But it may be they were not able to pay. Bo.Nay, they were able enough, but they thought it more to their Advantage to let it alone. Be.And is not this Lying? Bo.Ay, downright. Be.And did you dare to say to this Debtor, Why have you told me so many Lyes? Bo.No, not except I had a Mind to fight him too. Be.Well, and in like Manner do not Masons, Smiths, Goldsmiths, and Taylors promise Things upon a certain Day; and don’t perform it, altho’ it is of great Concern to you? Bo.Ay, and are not at all asham’d of it: And you may add to these, such Persons as promise to do you a Kindness. Be.Ay, you might give a thousand Instances more, not one of which would bear to have the Lye given them. Bo.The World abounds with these Lyes. Be.So in like Manner no Body will bear to be call’d Thief, when at the same Time, they have not the same Abhorrence of stealing. Bo.I would have you tell me plainly. Be.What Difference is there between him that steals a Thing out of your Escritoire, and him that forswears what you have deposited with him? Bo.No Difference but this, that he’s the more wicked Man that robs him who reposes a Confidence in him. Be.But how few are there that do restore that which has been put into their Hands? or, if they do, restore the whole. Bo.I believe but very few. Be.But yet not one of them will bear to be call’d a Thief, tho’ he has no Aversion to the Thing itself. Bo.This is very common. Be.Now do but reckon up with me, what is commonly done in the Management of the Estates of Orphans, as to Wills and Legacies; how much sticks to the Fingers of the Managers? Bo.Very often the whole. Be.They love Thieving, but hate the Name of it. Bo.’Tis true. Be.What do Collectors and Coiners of publick Money p. 137 do, who either coin it with too great an Allay, or too light? Or they who raise and fall the Exchange of Money for private Ends? Tho’ we don’t very well understand the Reason of it, yet we may speak of what we experience daily. He that borrows, or runs in Debt with Design never to pay, altho’ he be able, differs very little from a Thief. Bo.He may probably be said to be more wary, but not more honest. Be.But notwithstanding there is so great a Number, yet none of them can endure the Name of a Thief. Bo.God alone knows the Heart; and for that Reason, among Men, those that run themselves over Head and Ears in Debt, are not call’d Thieves. Be.What signifies what Men call them, if God accounts them Thieves? Surely every one knows his own Mind. And besides, he that owes a great Deal of Money, and yet dishonestly lavishes away what Money he gets; and after he has broke, and cheated his Creditors in one City, runs into another, hunting about for People to cheat; the oftner he does so, does not he declare the more plainly what he is at Heart? Bo.Ay, too plainly; but they oftentimes gloss over the Matter. Be.How? Bo.They pretend that this is a common Practice with great Men, and Kings, to owe a great Deal of Money, and to a great many Persons; and therefore they that are of this Disposition more resemble great Men. Be.What Use would they make of that? Bo.It is admirable, what great Liberty they would have allow’d to Knights. Be.But by what Right, or by what Law? Bo.Just the same that the Lord of the Manor shall claim to himself, whatsoever is cast a-Shore from a Shipwreck, altho’ there be a right Owner of it; or by which other Persons would keep to their own Use, what they take from a Highway-Man after he has been apprehended. Robbers themselves might make such Laws. Bo.Ay, and they would too, if they knew how to maintain them; and they would have enough to plead in excuse of them, if they did but denounce War before they committed the Robbery. Be.Who gave Knights this Privilege above the Commons? Bo.The Law of Arms; for thus they are train’d up for War, that they may be more expert at plundering the Enemy. Be.I believe it was after this Manner that Pyrrhus train’d his Soldiers up to War. Bo.No, but the Lacedemonians did. Be.A Mischief take them, and their whole Army too. But how came this Title to have so great a Prerogative? Bo.Some have it by Descent, some purchase it with Money, and some take it to themselves. Be.And may any Body have it that will? Bo.Yes, he may, if his Manners but be answerable to theirs. Be.What are they? Bo.Never to be guilty of doing a good Action, to go fine, wear a Diamond Ring, whore stoutly, game continually, spend his Life in Drinking and Diversion, speak of nothing that’s Mean, be continually cracking of Castles, Duels, Battles, and every Thing that looks great: They take the Liberty of quarrelling with whom they have a Mind, altho’ they han’t a Foot of Land of their own to set their Feet upon. Be.Such Knights as these deserve to be mounted upon the Wooden Horse: But there are a great many such Knights in Gelderland. Beatus and Boniface132 A Face as ugly as the Devil132 Allay137 Right of the Lord of the Manor to whatsoever is cast ashore from a Shipwreck137 |

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