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Subject Area: Political Theory
Collection: The Collected Works of John Stuart Mill

94.: The Established Church in Ireland 7 MAY, 1868 - John Stuart Mill, The Collected Works of John Stuart Mill, Volume XXVIII The Collected Works of John Stuart Mill, Volume XXVIII - Public and Parliamentary Speeches Part I November 1850 - November 1868 [1850]

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The Collected Works of John Stuart Mill, Volume XXVIII - Public and Parliamentary Speeches Part I November 1850 - November 1868, ed. John M. Robson and Bruce L. Kinzer (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1988).

Part of: Collected Works of John Stuart Mill, in 33 vols.

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94.

The Established Church in Ireland

7 MAY, 1868

PD, 3rd ser., Vol. 191, cols. 1928–9. Reported in The Times, 8 May, p. 7, from which the response is taken. In Committee to discuss the Acts pertaining to the Established Church in Ireland, the House was considering a Resolution by Roger Sinclair Aytoun (b. 1823), M.P. for Kirkcaldy, that would have discontinued the Maynooth Grant and the Regium Donum if and when the Church was disestablished in Ireland, and would also have precluded the expenditure of any of the secularized funds thus obtained from being used for the Roman Catholic religion or Roman Catholic schools (cols. 1902–5). There being some question in the mind of the Chairman, John George Dodson (1825–97), about the jurisdiction of the House over the last matter (col. 1924), an amendment to delete it was proposed, whereupon Aytoun offered to alter his own resolution to make the last provision apply to any religious bodies and any denominational schools. It was ruled that he could not do so, as there was already an amendment on the floor. The vote referred to by Mill was on a motion to let the original wording stand; it failed. Just before Mill, Charles Newdigate Newdegate (1816–87), M.P. for North Warwickshire, said that by leaving out half of Aytoun’s resolution, they reserved a power of spending every shilling obtained by disendowment for Catholic purposes (col. 1928).

the honourable member for North Warwickshire (Mr. Newdegate) has stated that we, who sit on this side of the House, have by the vote we have just given, declared that we intend to retain the power of bestowing the whole or part of the property taken from the Irish Church upon the Roman Catholic body. For myself, and I know for a great portion of those who surround me, I utterly deny that statement. (Cheers.) I will resist to the utmost of my power any proposal for giving one farthing of the property to the Roman Catholic or to any other religious body in any shape whatever. I had no motive whatever in voting against the Motion of the honourable Member for Kirkcaldy (Mr. Aytoun), except that it had been declared by you, Sir, not properly to come within the spirit of the Reference to the Committee; and also because it had been declared to be contrary to the Orders of the House—very strangely, I think—for the honourable Gentleman to alter his Resolution from a form in which I could not vote for it, to one in which I could have done so.

[Eventually, after further refinement, the amendment to delete the resolution was accepted.]