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Front Page Titles (by Subject) Number LIX.: Dialogue between Mr. Jurieu, and a Burgomaster, continued. - The Independent Whig, vol. 3 (2nd ed. 1741)
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Number LIX.: Dialogue between Mr. Jurieu, and a Burgomaster, continued. - Thomas Gordon, The Independent Whig, vol. 3 (2nd ed. 1741) [1720]Edition used:The Independent Whig: or, a Defence of Primitive Christianity, And of Our Ecclesiastical Establishment, against The Exorbitant Claims and Encroachments of Fanatical and Disaffected Clergymen. The Second Edition (London: J. Peele, 1741). Vol. 3.
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Number LIX.Dialogue between Mr. Jurieu, and a Burgomaster, continued.Burgomaster.THE persecuting Christian Emperors had much such Success against Paganism, as Lewis XIV. has had against Calvinism, and got it by the same wicked Methods. Mahomet had greater Success than either; and ’tis a particular Article of the Mahometan Religion, that God blesses every thing that succeeds. Jurieu.No such Argument can be used in Behalf of a false Religion. Burg.Every whit as much, as in Behalf of false and barbarous Measures, taken to propagate the true. Every Man thinks his own Religion the true Religion; and every religious successful Mischief that every Man does, has, according to your Argument, the divine Approbation. So that here, out of the Mouth of Mr. Jurieu, is a Defence of all the pious Barbarities and Slaughters that ever were committed in the World. Jur.Sir, I am against all Barbarities. Burg.Yes; when they fall upon yourself or your Party: But when they are exercised for you against others, they are wholsome Severities. If the Duke of Guise hanged a Hugonot, you cry it was Persecution and Barbarity; and so say I: But if Dr. Calvin burned Servetus, it was the just Doom of a Heretic; nay, it was God’s Judgment upon Heresy; and just so argued the Duke of Guise. Now to me both the Doctor and the Duke were Persecutors and Barbarians in those Instances: But thus Sects butcher and burn one another, and practise and condemn the same Thing. Jur.Pray, Sir, consider the Consequences of this Reasoning: You put the Wolves upon the same Foot with the Lambs of Christ, as to the Defence and Security of their Flocks. Burg.Every Persecutor is a Wolf: Did you ever see a Lamb devour a Kid? Did you ever know a Lamb armed with Fangs and Claws, and nourished with Blood? Jur.No: But I hope you, that are Magistrates, ought to defend us against Wolves. Burg.Without all Doubt: But do not you persuade us to mistake Men for Wolves, and Friends for Enemies. Jur.No: But I maintain Mr. Bayle to be a Wolf. Burg.Of all Men I should never take Mr. Bayle, the Philosopher, for a Beast of Prey. Has he ever torn you, Mr. Jurieu, or threatened to eat you up? Jur.This is Raillery, and not Reasoning: Sure you will allow that Heretics and Sceptics are Wolves. Burg.No, indeed won’t I: I have known excellent Men of both Sorts. I will neither allow them to be Wolves, nor suffer Wolves to fall upon them. Jur.Sir, you’ll pardon me, if you argue thus, I cannot argue with you. Burg.I believe you cannot: You thought you had nothing to do but to point out your Wolf; nor I, but to knock him on the Head. Jur.I am sorry to see so great Lukewarmness; it forebodes no Good to the Church. Burg.It forebodes no Victims, no spiritual Bonfires to the Ecclesiastics; whose fiery Zeal, were it suffered to blaze out, would soon make Fuel of the whole State, and reduce this opulent Commonwealth to Uniformity, and a few miserable Fisher-towns: But the Truth is, we are not lukewarm, we act upon a Principle of Christianity, by tolerating all Religions, and by not suffering any Christian to hurt another, or any other Man, for his Religion. Jur.Alas, Sir! without an Assistance more active, Religion will languish. Burg.That is your Fault then: You have our active Assistance: Have you not Pulpits, and Temples, and Opportunities, by the Providence of the States, which maintains great Numbers of Ecclesiastics, at a great Expence, to teach the People what the Bible teaches them; to explain to them the plain Commandments of God; to open to them the inspired Writings of the Gospel in your own Words; and to baffle all who find any other Meaning there than what you find? Jur.But what if they pay no Submission to our Doctrine and Discipline? Burg.No more they ought not, if they do not like your Doctrine and Discipline, Submission is paid to external Things, and due only to the State. What Title have you to any body’s Submission, any more than the Church of France had to yours? If every Man he not to follow his own Judgment in Religion, then is Religion Blindness. Jur.But what do you say to those who have no Religion? Burg.Say! I say, I wish that they had. Jur.What! will you take no Method to reclaim them? Bur.Yes, we give you Money to talk to them. Jur.And they won’t mind us. Burg.Then you must do as I do, pray for them. Jur.This is a faint Way of propagating the Gospel. Burg.I beg that you would name me any other. Jur.Sir, give me Leave to tell you, that three Fourths of Europe would be Pagans at this Day, had not the Emperor Constantine, and his Successors, employed their Authority to abolish Paganism. Burg.If the Fact be so, I am ashamed to hear it; and think, that those Emperors were very bad Men, and great Tyrants. They made Hypocrites, and no Christians; and these were much better Men when they were professed Pagans, as well as better Subjects. All Converts made by Force, are made Impostors and Enemies. Many of those Princes were of themselves evil and bloody Men, and more so by the restless Instigations of the Clergy, who having departed from all Christian Humility and Meekness, converted Preaching into Domineering, and Exhortation into Violence and Terrors; employed penal Laws, and the imperial Sword, to confute Antagonists, and to make Proselytes; and the Emperor and his Soldiers were the Apostles of that Time. Thus began Popery, and the strange heterogeneous Tyranny of Rome; and thus it continues. Better had it been for the Pagans, and better for Mankind, if there never had been such Converts. Jur.I deny that the first Emperors were Papists. Burg.They were directed by Priests, and founded Popery. Jur.That was the Abuse of their Goodness. Burg.No; it was the natural and certain Use of their Folly and Wickedness: And you cannot distinguish any Persecution, or any priestly Domination, any-where from true Popery, but in the Degrees of it; and where-ever it is not checked, it will certainly and eternally arrive, without stopping, to the highest Degree of Popery. Jur.Sir, Can you possibly think me capable of a kind Wish for Popery? Burg.No; but you do just as the Popish Priests do, call upon the Magistrate for Help and civil Restraint, the first Step to Fire and Faggot. Jur.I am grieved you should think all Sorts of Clergy alike. Burg.I do not think they are; but I think they all would be, if the Magistrate would let them. I never knew any, but, where they were suffered, were endless Informers and Solicitors to the Magistrate against Dissenters, and Men of different Opinions; in which Conduct there is something extremely absurd and bold. If the Clergy direct the Magistrate, then are the Clergy verily and indeed the Magistrate; and if the Magistrate must deal in Religion, then is the Magistrate the Clergy. Jur.To whom must the Clergy apply in case of obstinate Gainsayers? Bung.To God and Reason. Jur.Do you think, Sir, we can be satisfied with this Answer? Burg.I do not think you can; but I am sure you ought. To deal freely with you, most Ecclesiastics are like Women and Children, and expect from all Mankind to be humoured in every thing. Like Women and Children they grow sullen, peevish, and often outrageous, when they are not humoured; and, like them, they are terrified with Dreams, Shadows, and Phantoms. I never yet knew a Woman, or a Child, or a Clergyman, but thought they had a Right to every thing that they had a Mind to, however pernicious or unreasonable. Jur.I am sorry, Sir, you should think what I ask of you pernicious or unreasonable. Burg.I am sorry and ashamed you should think otherwise. You run away from Persecution in your own Country, and desire those who protect and maintain you here, to turn Persecutors, against the Genius of Christianity, and the fundamental Maxims of our State. You have Leisure, Learning, and Pay, to write and confute, and say what you please about Religion. Why should not other Men have the same Liberty? Are so many zealous and able Champions, so many learned Ecclesiastics, with so good a Cause, afraid of a few mistaken Laymen, contending weakly for Error? Did the Apostles act thus, or complain thus? Jur.Alas, Sir! they had extraordinary Powers to combat Error withal: But the Providence of God hath now in a great measure left his Church to the Protection of the Christian Magistrate. Burg.I thought that Truth had been always sufficient to combat Error; and I hope Providence has not left you destitute of the Assistance of Truth. And as to the Magistrates Protection, you may enjoy it to the full here: We allow every Man to profess and defend his own Religion: and by this means Truth has a full and a fair Hearing: Nor does Truth desire more; though Craft and Falshood can never be sufficiently propped and barricaded. Thus our Protection, like our Charity, is christian and universal. As to the narrow Protection of one Tribe or Side only, it is poor, enthusiastical, and scandalous; it is depreciating Government into a Party, and confining Christianity to a Cabal. Jur.But by this loose and unrestrained Protection, Error has equal Countenance with Truth. Burg.How so, Mr. Jurieu? If I set a Giant to wrestle with a Dwarf, and encourage him to use the Dwarf as he pleases, to throw him down, and crush him to Pieces, has the Giant any Reason to complain? If, on the contrary, I bind the Dwarf Hand and Foot, and then set the Giant upon him, I am sure the poor Dwarf has Reason to complain heavily, and the Giant to be greatly ashamed. This is plainly the State of Truth and Error: Truth will inevitably triumph, if it has fair Play. What Reason have the Clergy to be afraid? Why need Mr. Jurieu complain? |

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