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School of Thought: 17th Century Natural Rights Theorists
Subject Area: Political Theory
Subject Area: Religion
Subject Area: War and Peace
Topic: The English Revolution

Council of Officers, 8th-11th January 1649 - Arthur Sutherland Pigott Woodhouse, Puritanism and Liberty, being the Army Debates (1647-9) from the Clarke Manuscripts with Supplementary Documents [1938]

Edition used:

Puritanism and Liberty, being the Army Debates (1647-9) from the Clarke Manuscripts with Supplementary Documents, selected and edited with an Introduction A.S.P. Woodhouse, foreword by A.D. Lindsay (University of Chicago Press, 1951).

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Liberty Fund, Inc. is a private, educational foundation established to encourage the study of the ideal of a society of free and responsible individuals.


Council of Officers, 8th-11th January 1649

[Final Debates on Settlement of Religion]1

Mr2 [William] Erbury:j

Every man believes his God [to be the God] of all nations.

Ireton:

Those that do not own Jesus Christ as a second Person from the Father, yet, if you ask themk whether they have [fulfilled] this [condition of faith in God] through faith in Jesus Christ,a [declare that they have], acknowledging the man Jesus Christ as the person through whom God hath revealed himself.b

Erbury:

If any man do offend in relation to the civil injury of others, he is punishable by the laws.c

To1 what purpose will you give that liberty to the Jews and others to come in unless you grant them the exercise of their religion?

Captain2 [William] Butler:

Truth and light and knowledge haved still gone under the name of errors and heresies, and still they have put these Esau’s garments upon Jacob’s back. And in that regard (that for the most part truth and light goe under the name of error and heresy) we shall give occasion to our adversaries to rail against us in every pulpit; and [they will] make it their work not to discover truth and preach sound doctrine, but to rail against honest men.

Ireton:

You agree [to allow them to preach against beliefs], if you do but say they must instruct the people as well concerning what is truth as what is false. I would know what latitude you give them to rail [against persons] by this, or that.

[There is] a use for satisfaction of conscientious men in those words.f By our denying [the magistrate] compulsive power or restrictive power to [suppress] errors and heresies, we do allow they should be opposed with spiritual weapons.

Captain Spencer:

We are now about an agreement, and as if the power were in our own hands, but if we labour for liberty [for ourselves], let us give it to others that are as dear to Christ as we are. [For an official ministry], let them preach what they will, they cannot touch me; only they touch me in my purse.

Erbury3 :g

[I would know] whether they do by that go about to set up a state religion. Men should be called before they can teach publicly.

[On the Agreement as a Whole]

[1] Of the three debates (8th, 10th, 11th January 1649) fragments only are reported. Their subject is the four clauses of Article IX of the final Agreement (for text, see p. 361, n. 26); the article was substituted for Article VII, clause 1, of the Agreement as originally drawn (pp. 361-2), which had been rejected (pp. 467-8). Of the debates on the civil settlement (16th December—6th January) little is reported save the votes. For a summary, and for an account of the examination of Elizabeth Poole (29th December and 5th January), see Appendix, pp. 467-71.

[2] On Clause 3 (8th January). I omit headings of these fragments.

[1] On Clause 4. Firth quotes Mercurius Pragmaticus (19th-26th December): ‘ . . . the Council of Mechanics at Whitehall . . . voted a toleration of all religions whatsoever, not excepting Turks nor Papists nor Jews.’ The Jews were seeking readmission to England on the terms which they enjoyed in the Netherlands.

[2] On Clauses 1 and 2 (10th January).

[3] 11th January.

[(j)] + uppon the 3d. Article, the last Article, That;

[(k-170 a)] tr hath revealed himself.

[170. (b)] + Debate uppon the last wordes. So as they abuse nott this Libertie;

[(c)] + uppon the 4th. Article concerning religion;

[(d)]ha’s;

[(e)]going;

[(f)] + that;

[(g)] + Question uppon the matter concerning Religion.