The Online Library of Liberty

A project of Liberty Fund, Inc.

• Preface.
• Conversation I.: Introduction.
• Conversation II.: Introduction — Continued.
• Conversation III.: On Property.
• Conversation IV.: On Property— Continued.
• Conversation V.: On the Division of Labour.
• Conversation VI.: On Capital.
• Conversation VII.: On Capital — Continued.
• Conversation VIII.: On Wages and Population.
• Conversation IX.: On Wages and Population. Continued.
• Conversation X.: On the Condition of the Poor.
• Conversation XI.: On Revenue.
• Conversation XII.: On Revenue Derived From Property In Land.
• Conversation XIII.: On Revenue Derived From the Cultivation of Land.
• Conversation XIV.: On the Revenue of Those Who Do Not Employ Their Capital Themselves.
• Conversation XV.: On Value and Price.
• Conversation XVI.: On Money.
• Conversation XVII.: Subject of Money Continued.
• Conversation XVIII.: On Commerce.
• Conversation XIX.: On Foreign Trade.
• Conversation XX.: Continuation of Foreign Trade.
• Conversation XXI.: Subject of Foreign Trade Continued.
• Conversation XXII.: On Expenditure.

CONVERSATION X.

ON THE CONDITION OF THE POOR.

caroline.

I have been reflecting ever since our last interview, Mrs. B., whether there were no means of averting or at least alleviating the misery resulting from an excess of population, and it appears to me that though we have not the same resource in land as America; yet we have large tracts of waste land, which, by being brought into cultivation, would produce an additional stock of subsistence.

mrs. b.

You must remember that industry is limited by the extent of capital, and that no more labourers can be employed than we have the means of maintaining; they work for their daily bread, and without obtaining it, they neither could nor would work. All the labourers which the capital of the country can maintain being disposed of, the only question is, whether it be better to employ them on land already in a state of cultivation, or in breaking up and bringing into culture new lands; and this point may safely be trusted to the decision of the landed proprietors, as it is no less their interest than that of the labouring classes that the greatest possible quantity of produce should be raised. To a certain extent it has been found more advantageous to lay out capital in improving the culture of old land, rather than to employ it in bringing new land into tillage; because the soil of the waste land is extremely poor and ungrateful, and requires a great deal to be laid out on it before it brings in a return. But there is often capital sufficient for both these purposes; and of late years we have seen not only prodigious improvements in the processes of agriculture throughout the country, but a great number of commons inclosed and cultivated.

caroline.

I fear you will think me inconsistent, but I cannot help regretting the inclosure of commons; they are the only resource of the cottagers for the maintenance of a few lean cattle. Let me once more quote my favourite Goldsmith: —

• “Where, then, ah! where shall poverty reside,
• To ’scape the pressure of contiguous pride?
• If to some common’s fenceless limits stray’d,
• He drives his flock to pick the scanty blade,
• Those fenceless fields the sons of wealth divide,
• And e’en the bare-worn common is deny’d.”

mrs. b.

You should recollect that we do not admit poets to be very good authority in political economy. If, instead of feeding a few lean cattle, a common, by being inclosed, will fatten a much greater number of fine cattle, you must allow that the quantity of subsistence will be increased, and the poor, though in a less direct manner, will fare the better for it. Labourers are required to inclose and cultivate those commons, the neighbouring cottagers are employed for that purpose, and this additional demand for labour turns to their immediate advantage. They not only receive an indemnity for their loss of right of common, but they find purchasers for the cattle they can no longer maintain, in the proprietors of the new inclosures.

When Finchley Common was inclosed, it was divided amongst the inhabitants of that parish; and the cottagers and little shopkeepers sold the small slips of land which fell to their share to men of greater property, who thus became possessed of a sufficient quantity to make it answer to them to inclose and cultivate it; and the poorer classes were amply remunerated for their loss of commonage by the sale of their respective lots.

caroline.

But if we have it not in our power to provide for a redundant population by the cultivation of our waste lands, what objection is there to sending those who cannot find employment at home, to seek a maintenance in countries where it is more easily obtained, where there is a greater demand for labour? Or why should they not found new colonies in the yet unsettled parts of America?

mrs. b.

Emigration is undoubtedly a resource for an overstocked population; but one which is adopted in general, not only with great reluctance by individuals, but is commonly discouraged by governments, from a mistaken apprehension of its diminishing the strength of the country.

caroline.

It might be wrong to encourage emigration to a very great extent; I meant only to provide abroad for those whom we cannot maintain at home.

mrs. b.

Under an equitable government there is little danger of emigration ever exceeding that point. The attachment to our native land is naturally so strong, and there are so many ties of kindred and association to break through before we can quit it, that no slight motive will induce a man to expatriate himself. An author deeply versed in the knowledge of the human mind says, “La seule bonne loi contre les emigrations, est celle que la nature a gravé dans nos cœurs.” On this subject I am very willing to quote the Deserted Village: —

• “Good heaven! what sorrows gloom’d that parting day
• That call’d them from their native walks away!”

Besides, the difficulties with which a colony of emigrants have to struggle before they can effect a settlement, and the hardships they must undergo until they have raised food for their subsistence, are so discouraging, that no motive less strong than that of necessity is likely to induce them to settle in an uncultivated land.

Some capital, too, is required for this as well as for all undertakings; the colonists must be provided with implements of husbandry and of art, and supplied with food and clothing until they shall have succeeded in producing such necessaries for themselves.

Were emigration therefore encouraged, instead of being checked, scarcely any would abandon their country but those who could not find a maintenance in it. But should emigration ever become so great as to leave the means of subsistence easy and plentiful to those who remain, it would naturally cease, and the facility of rearing children, and maintaining families, would soon fill the vacancy in population.

There are, it is true, some emigrations which are extremely detrimental to the wealth and prosperity of a country; these, however, are not occasioned by poverty, but result from the severity and hardships imposed by arbitrary governments on particular classes of men. Want of toleration in religion has caused the most considerable and numerous emigrations of this description. Such was that of the Huguenots from France at the revocation of the edict of Nantz. They were a skilful and industrious people, who carried their arts and manufactures into Germany, Prussia, Holland, and England, and deprived France of some of her most valuable subjects. Spain has never recovered the blow which her industry received by the expulsion of the Moors, under Ferdinand and Isabella; not all the wealth of America has repaid her for this loss.

But to return to the population of England: the more we find ourselves unable to provide for an overgrown population, the more desirous we should be to avail ourselves of those means which tend to prevent the evil; — such, for instance, as a general diffusion of knowledge, which would excite greater attention in the lower classes to their future interests.

caroline.

Surely you would not teach political economy to the labouring classes, Mrs. B.?

mrs. b.

No; but I would endeavour to give the rising generation such an education as would render them not only moral and religious, but industrious, frugal, and provident. In proportion as the mind is informed, we are able to calculate the consequences of our actions: it is the infant and the savage who live only for the present moment; those whom instruction has taught to think, reflect upon the past and look forward to the future. Education gives rise to prudence, not only by enlarging our understandings, but by softening our feelings, by humanising the heart, and promoting amiable affections. The rude and inconsiderate peasant marries without either foreseeing or caring for the miseries he may entail on his wife and children; but he who has been taught to value the comforts and decencies of life, will not heedlessly involve himself and all that is dear to him in poverty, and its long train of miseries.

caroline.

I am very happy to hear that you think instruction may produce this desirable end, since the zeal for the education of the poor that has been displayed of late years gives every prospect of success; and in a few years more, it may perhaps be impossible to meet with a child who cannot read and write.

mrs. b.

The highest advantages, both religious, moral, and political, may be expected to result from this general ardour for the instruction of the poor. No great or decided improvement can be effected in the manners of the people but by the education of the rising generation. It is difficult, if not impossible, to change the habits of men whose characters are formed and settled; the prejudices of ignorance which have grown up with us, will not yield to new impressions: whilst youth and innocence may be moulded into any form you choose to give them. This has been remarkably well expressed in a foreign periodical work.* “Tout est lié dans les dispositions morales et dans les habitudes de l’homme. Un travail qui met de l’ordre dans les idées, prépare à l’ordre dans la conduite. L’exercise de l’attention la fortifie, et par elle le jugement et la mémoire, les deux facultés les plus usuelles dans les affaires de la vie. L’instruction religieuse et morale infusées dans l’esprit et dans le cœur des enfans, à mesure que les notions élémentaires des lettres leur deviennent familières; la discipline et la règle qu’il est facile d’introduire dans les écoles, les façonnent aux devoirs dont l’accomplissement assure le maintien de l’ordre social, en même temps que le bonheur des individus qui s’y soumettent. Des hommes élevés de cette manière sont non-seulement plus intelligens, plus aptes à saisir et appliquer les idées utiles, plus économes, plus laborieux, que ceux qui sont demeurés ignorans; mais ils sont aussi plus modérés, plus patiens, plus sages, plus justes. Tous les rapports, dans l’intérieur des familles, en ont plus de douceur et de force; l’influence des parens est plus marquée et plus durable; le loisir n’est point accompagné des inconvéniens qu’il a pour les hommes illitérés; les relations de voisinage sont signalées par plus d’égards, et celles de l’intérêt par plus d’équité.”

But independently of schools, and the various institutions for the education of youth, there is an establishment among the lower classes which is peculiarly calculated to inculcate lessons of prudence and economy. I mean the Benefit Clubs, or Friendly Societies; the members of which, by contributing a small stipend monthly, accumulate a fund which furnishes them relief and aid in times of sickness or distress. These associations have spread throughout the country, and their good effects are rendered evident by comparing the condition of such of the labouring classes as belong to them, with those of the same district who have no resource in times of distress, but parochial relief or private charity. The former are comparatively cleanly, industrious, sober, frugal, respecting themselves, and respected by others; depending in times of casual sickness or accident on funds created by their own industry, they maintain an honourable pride and independence of character: whilst the latter, in a season of distress, become a prey to dirt and wretchedness; and, being dissatisfied with the scantiness of parish-relief, they are often driven to the commission of crimes. It is above a century since these clubs were first instituted; they received encouragement both from government and individuals, and have spread throughout the country. I dare say that your prudent gardener Thomas is a member of one of them.

caroline.

Yes; and he belongs to one which can boast of peculiar advantages, as most of the gentlemen in the neighbourhood subscribe to it; in order, by increasing the fund, and consequently the amount of the relief which the distressed members can receive, to encourage the poor to belong to it.

mrs. b.

That is an excellent mode of bestowing charity, for you are not only sure that you relieve the necessitous, but also the industrious poor. A similar plan has been adopted, within these few years, in a village in the neighbourhood of London, and has been attended with the greatest success. Various schemes had been devised by the charitable inhabitants of this village to relieve the necessities of their poor, and so much was done for them by the opulent, that they found little need to exert their own industry; whilst the poor in the neighbouring parishes, attracted by the munificence of the charitable donations, flocked to the place; so that, notwithstanding all their bounty, the rich still found themselves surrounded by objects of penury and distress. Convinced at length that they created as much poverty as they relieved, they came to a resolution of completely changing their system. They established benefit clubs; and the sums which they before gave away in alms were now subscribed to these societies, so as to afford very ample relief to its members in cases of distress. The consequence was, that the idle poor abandoned the place, and the industrious poor were so well provided for, that the village has assumed quite a new aspect, and penury and want are scarcely any more to be seen.

But the institution which has in a great measure superseded that of benefit clubs, and of all others has most essentially contributed to the improvement of the condition of the poor, is that of the Savings Banks. Scotland has the glory of having first established an institution, the merits of which are so universally acknowledged, that within a few years it has spread throughout the civilised world. “The object of this institution,” says the Edinburgh Review, No. 49, “is to open to the lower orders a place of deposit for their small savings, with the allowance of a reasonable monthly interest, and with full liberty of withdrawing their money, at any time, either in whole or in part, — an accommodation which it is impracticable for the ordinary banks to furnish.”

These institutions, variously modified, according to the circumstances and localities of the different countries in which they are established, afford the greatest encouragement to industry, by securing the property of the labouring poor. How frequently it happens that an industrious man, after having toiled to accumulate a small sum, is tempted to lay it out in a lottery ticket, is inveigled by sharpers to a gambling-table, or induced by adventurers to engage in some ill-judged and hazardous speculation; to lend it to a distressed or a treacherous friend, — not to mention the risk of its being lost or stolen. But now Savings Banks are established in almost every district in England, where the poor may without difficulty or trouble deposit the trifle they can spare from their earnings, and where, instead of being exposed to this variety of dangers, it accumulates, some interest being allowed them for their money. We may hope, therefore, that the influence of prudential habits will help to raise the poor above the degrading resource of parochial assistance, and prepare the way for the abolition of the poor-rate, a tax which falls so heavily on the middling classes of people, and which is said to give rise to still more poverty than it relieves.

caroline.

Indeed! I cannot understand that.

mrs. b.

The certainty that the parish is bound to attend to their wants, renders the poor less apprehensive of indigence than if they were convinced that they must suffer all the wretchedness it entails. When a young man marries without having the means of supporting his family by his labour, and without having made some little provision against accidents or sickness, he depends upon the parish as a never-failing resource. A profligate man knows, that if he spend his wages at the public-house instead of providing for his family, his wife and children can at worst but go to the poor-house. Parish relief thus becomes the very cause of the mischief which it professes to remedy.

caroline.

True, and it appears to encourage the worst species of poverty, that arising from idleness and ill conduct.

mrs. b.

The greatest evil that results from this provision for the poor is, that, by encroaching on the funds destined for the maintenance of labourers, it diminishes the demand for labour, and consequently lowers wages. Whilst, therefore, on the one hand, the poor-rate raises up a population which requires work to maintain it, on the other, it curtails the means by which it is employed. The poor-rate bestows in the form of alms, and but too frequently on the idle and profligate, that wealth which should be the reward of active industry: if the amount of the poor-rate were added to the circulating capital of the country, the independent labourer might earn a better livelihood for himself and his family than he can now do; and, without the degrading resource of parish relief, might lay by a portion to provide for sickness and old age.

When it was once proposed to establish a poor’s rate in France, the committee of mendicity, in rejecting it, thus expressed themselves on that of England:—

“Cet exemple est une grande et importante leçon pour nous, car, indépendamment des vices qu’elle nous présente et d’une dépense monstreuse, et d’un encouragement nécessaire à la fainéantise, elle nous découvre la plaie politique de l’Angleterre la plus dévorante, qu’il est également dangereux pour sa tranquillité, et son bonheur, de détruire ou de laisser subsister.”

caroline.

But what is to be done? The poor cannot be allowed to starve, even when idle and vicious.

mrs. b.

Certainly not; and besides, the wife and children of a profligate man are often the innocent victims of his misconduct. Then there are frequently cases of casual distress, which no prudence could foresee or guard against. Under these circumstances, the poor rate could not be abolished without occasioning the most cruel distress. I know therefore of no other remedy to this evil than the slow and gradual effect of education. By enlightening the minds of the lower classes their moral habits are improved, and they rise above that state of degradation in which all feelings of dignity and independence are extinguished.

caroline.

But, alas! how many years will elapse before these happy results can take place! I am impatient that benefits should be immediately and universally diffused; their progress is in general so slow and partial, that there is but a small chance of our living to see their effects.

mrs. b.

There is some gratification in looking forward to an improved state of society, even if we should not live to witness it.

caroline.

Since it is so little in our power to accelerate its progress, we must endeavour to be contented with the prospect of improvement: but I confess that I cannot help regretting the want of sovereign power to forward measures so conducive to the happiness of mankind.

mrs. b.

You might possibly fail in your projects by attempting too much. The Emperor Joseph II. endeavoured at once to transform a bad government into a good one, and, by adopting arbitrary and violent measures to accomplish his purpose, without paying any regard to the habits and manners, the prejudices and ignorance of his subjects, created ill-will and opposition, instead of co-operation; and ended by leaving them but little more advanced than he found them. I cannot too often repeat to you, that gradual improvement is always preferable, and more likely to be permanent, than that which is effected by sudden revolution.

But of all modes of bestowing charity, that of indiscriminate alms is the most injudicious. It encourages both idleness and imposition, and gives the bread which should feed the industrious poor to the indolent and profligate. By affording certain support for beggars, it trains up people to those wretched means of subsistence as regularly as men are brought up to any respectable branch of industry. This is more especially notorious in Catholic countries, where almsgiving is universally considered as a religious duty; and particularly in those towns in which richly-endowed convents and religious establishments dispense large and indiscriminate donations.

Townsend, in his Travels in Spain, tells us, that “The Archbishop of Grenada once had the curiosity to count the number of beggars to whom he daily distributes bread at his doors. He found the men 2000, the women 3024, but at another time the women were 4000.

“Leon, destitute of commerce, is supported by the church. Beggars abound in every street, all fed by the convents and at the bishop’s palace. Here they get their breakfast, there they dine. Beside food at St. Marca’s, they receive every other day, the men a farthing, the women and children half as much. On this provision they live, they marry, and they perpetuate a miserable race. Were it possible to banish poverty and wretchedness by any other means than by industry and unremitted application, benevolence might safely be permitted to stretch forth the hand, and without distinction to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, and furnish habitations to the desolate. But the misfortune is, that undistinguished benevolence offers a premium to indolence, prodigality, and vice.”

caroline.

All this is very true: but you must allow that it is extremely painful to pass, so frequently as we do, objects of distress in the streets, without affording them some trifling assistance.

mrs. b.

I cannot blame any one for indulging feelings of humanity: to pity and relieve the sufferings of our fellow-creatures is one of the first lessons which nature teaches us; but our actions should be regulated by good sense, not blindly directed by undistinguishing compassion. We should certainly consider it as a duty to ascertain whether the object whom we relieve is in real want, and we should proportion our charity, not only to his distress, but also to his merits. We ought to do much more for an industrious family, whom unforeseen or unavoidable accidents have reduced to poverty, than for one who has brought on distress through want of a well-regulated conduct. When we relieve objects of the latter description, it would be well at the same time to bestow a trifling reward on some individual among the labouring classes of the neighbourhood distinguished for his industry and good conduct. This would counteract the pernicious effect which cannot fail to be produced by assisting the indolent, whilst we suffer the industrious to remain without reward.

caroline.

But the advantages and comforts derived from industry constitute its natural recompense, and it seems to require no other reward.

mrs. b.

Nor would it, if a similar result could not be obtained without effort; but when a hard-working labourer observes that the family of his idle neighbour is as well provided for as his own — that the hand of charity supplies them with what he earns by the sweat of his brow — such reflections are apt to produce discontent, and tend to check his industry. While, therefore, we tacitly encourage idleness by relieving the distress it produces, we at the same time discourage that laborious industry which passes unnoticed. The value of pecuniary rewards is increased by their being bestowed as marks of approbation; so far from exciting a sense of humiliating dependence, they produce a feeling of a very opposite nature, which raises and improves the character — a consciousness of merit seen and approved by those to whom the poor look up. Such sentiments soften whilst they invigorate the labours of the industrious. Thus if help for the distressed and rewards for the meritorious poor were to go hand in hand, the one would do as much towards the prevention of poverty as the other towards relieving it.

caroline.

I had an opportunity last summer of witnessing a mode of improving the condition of the labouring poor, in which the system of rewards is introduced with the happiest effect. An extensive piece of ground has been laid out in gardens by a great landed proprietor in Hertfordshire, for such of his labourers as have none attached to their cottages. He lets the ground to them at the low rate of sixpence a year each. These gardens are sufficiently large to provide an ample supply of common vegetables for the labourer’s family, and to employ his leisure hours in its cultivation; but not so extensive as to tempt him to withdraw his attention from his daily labour, and render the produce an article of sale. As a further means of exciting industry, the proprietor annually distributes three prizes as rewards to those whose gardens are found to be in the highest state of cultivation. This judicious mode of rewarding industry has been beneficial also in producing a spirit of emulation amongst the rival gardeners, whose grounds being separated only by paths, the comparative state of each is easily determined.

mrs. b.

This is indeed an excellent plan; the leisure hours which the labourers might probably have passed at the alehouse are occupied in raising an additional stock of wholesome food, and the money which would have been spent in drinking is saved for a better purpose — it may form perhaps the beginning of a capital, and in process of time secure a little independence for himself and his family.

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