The Online Library of Liberty

A project of Liberty Fund, Inc.

• Preface.
• Conversation I.: Introduction.
• Conversation II.: Introduction — Continued.
• Conversation III.: On Property.
• Conversation IV.: On Property— Continued.
• Conversation V.: On the Division of Labour.
• Conversation VI.: On Capital.
• Conversation VII.: On Capital — Continued.
• Conversation VIII.: On Wages and Population.
• Conversation IX.: On Wages and Population. Continued.
• Conversation X.: On the Condition of the Poor.
• Conversation XI.: On Revenue.
• Conversation XII.: On Revenue Derived From Property In Land.
• Conversation XIII.: On Revenue Derived From the Cultivation of Land.
• Conversation XIV.: On the Revenue of Those Who Do Not Employ Their Capital Themselves.
• Conversation XV.: On Value and Price.
• Conversation XVI.: On Money.
• Conversation XVII.: Subject of Money Continued.
• Conversation XVIII.: On Commerce.
• Conversation XIX.: On Foreign Trade.
• Conversation XX.: Continuation of Foreign Trade.
• Conversation XXI.: Subject of Foreign Trade Continued.
• Conversation XXII.: On Expenditure.

CONVERSATION I.

INTRODUCTION.

mrs. b.

We differ so much respecting the merit of the passage you mentioned this morning, that I cannot help suspecting some inaccuracy in the quotation.

caroline.

Then pray allow me to read it to you; it is immediately after the return of Telemachus to Salentum, when he expresses his astonishment to Mentor at the change that has taken place since his former visit; he says, “Has any misfortune happened to Salentum in my absence? the magnificence and splendour in which I left it have disappeared. I see neither silver, nor gold, nor jewels; the habits of the people are plain, the buildings are smaller and more simple, the arts languish, and the city is become a desert.” — “Have you observed,” replied Mentor with a smile, “the state of the country that lies round it?” — “Yes,” said Telemachus, “I perceive that agriculture is become an honourable profession, and that there is not a field uncultivated.” — “And which is best,” replied Mentor, “a superb city, abounding with marble, gold, and silver, with a steril and neglected country; or a country in a state of high cultivation, and fruitful as a garden, with a city where decency has taken place of pomp? A great city full of artificers, who are employed only to effeminate the manners, by furnishing the superfluities of luxury, surrounded by a poor and uncultivated country, resembles a monster with a head of enormous size, and a withered, enervated body, without beauty, vigour, or proportion. The genuine strength and true riches of a kingdom consist in the number of people, and the plenty of provisions; and innumerable people now cover the whole territory of Idomeneus, which they cultivate with unwearied diligence and assiduity. His dominions may be considered as one town, of which Salentum is the centre: for the people that were wanting in the fields, and superfluous in the city, we have removed from the city to the fields.”

Well — must I proceed, or have I read enough to convince you that Mentor is right?

mrs. b.

I still persist in my opinion; for though some of the sentiments in this passage are perfectly just, yet the general principle on which they are founded, that town and country thrive at the expense of each other, I believe to be quite erroneous; I am convinced, on the contrary, that flourishing cities are the means of fertilising the fields around them. Do you see any want of cultivation in the neighbourhood of London? or can you name any highly improved country which does not abound with wealthy and populous cities? On the other hand, what is more common than to observe decayed cities environed by barren and ill-cultivated lands? The purple and gold of Tyre during the prosperity of the Phœnicians, far from depriving the fields of their labourers, obliged that nation to colonise new countries as a provision for its excess of population.

caroline.

That is going very far back for an example.

mrs. b.

If you wish to come down to a later period, compare the ancient flourishing state of Phœnicia, with its present wretchedness, so forcibly described by Volney in his travels.

caroline.

Has not this wretchedness been produced by violent revolutions, which during a course of ages have impoverished that devoted country, and does it not continue in consequence of the detestable policy of its present masters? But in the natural and undisturbed order of things, is it not clear that the greater number of labourers a sovereign should, after the example of Idomeneus, compel to quit the town in order to work in the country, the better that country would be cultivated?

mrs. b.

I do not think so; I am of opinion, on the contrary, that the people thus compelled to quit the town would not find work in the country.

caroline.

And why not?

mrs. b.

Because there would already be as many labourers in the country as could find employment.

caroline.

In England that might possibly be the case, but would it be so in badly cultivated countries?

mrs. b.

I think it would.

caroline.

Do you mean to say that if a country which is ill cultivated were provided with a greater number of labourers it would not be improved? You must allow that this requires some explanation.

mrs. b.

It does so, and perhaps even more than you imagine; for you cannot well understand this question without some knowledge of the principles of political economy.

caroline.

I am very sorry to hear that, for I confess that I have a sort of antipathy to political economy.

mrs. b.

Are you sure that you understand what is meant by political economy?

caroline.

I believe so, as it is very often the subject of conversation at home; but it appears to me the most uninteresting of all subjects. It is about custom-houses, and trade, and taxes, and bounties, and smuggling, and paper-money, and the bullion-committee, &c. which I cannot hear named without yawning. Then there is a perpetual reference to the works of Adam Smith, whose name is never uttered without such veneration, that I was induced one day to look into his work on Political Economy to gain some information on the subject of corn, but what with forestalling, regrating, duties, draw-backs, and limiting prices, I was so overwhelmed by a jargon of unintelligible terms, that after running over a few pages I threw the book away in despair, and resolved to eat my bread in humble ignorance. So if our argument respecting town and country relates to political economy, I believe that I must be contented to yield the point in dispute without understanding it.

mrs. b.

Well, then, if you can remain satisfied with your ignorance of political economy you should at least make up your mind to forbear from talking on the subject, since you cannot do it to any purpose.

caroline.

I assure you that requires very little effort; I only wish that I was as certain of never hearing the subject mentioned as I am of never talking upon it myself.

mrs. b.

Do you recollect how heartily you laughed at poor Mr. Jourdain in the Bourgeois Gentilhomme, when he discovered that he had been speaking in prose all his life without knowing it? — Well, my dear, you frequently talk of political economy without knowing it. But a few days since I heard you deciding on the very question of the scarcity of corn; and it must be confessed that your verdict was in perfect unison with your present profession of ignorance.

caroline.

Indeed I only repeated what I had heard from very sensible people, that the farmers had a great deal of corn; that if they were compelled to bring it to market there would be no scarcity, and that they kept it back with a view to their own interest, in order to raise the price. Surely it does not require a knowledge of political economy to speak on so common, so interesting a subject as this first necessary of life.

mrs. b.

The very circumstance of its general interest renders it one of the most important branches of political economy. Unfortunately for your resolution, this science spreads into so many ramifications that you will seldom hear a conversation amongst liberal-minded people without some reference to it. It was but yesterday that you accused the Birmingham manufacturers of cruelty and injustice towards their workmen, and asserted that the rate of wages should be proportioned by law to that of provisions; in order that the poor might not be sufferers by a rise in the price of bread. I dare say you thought that you had made a very rational speech when you so decided?

caroline.

And was I mistaken? You begin to excite my curiosity, Mrs. B.; do you think I shall ever be tempted to study this science?

mrs. b.

I do not know; but I have no doubt that I shall convince you of your incapacity to enter on most subjects of general conversation, whilst you remain in total ignorance of it; and that however guarded you may be, that ignorance will be betrayed, and may frequently expose you to ridicule. During the riots of Nottingham I recollect hearing you condemn the invention of machines, which, by abridging labour, throw a number of workmen out of employment. Your opinion was founded upon mistaken principles of benevolence. In short, my dear, so many things are more or less connected with the science of political economy, that if you persevere in your resolution, you might almost as well condemn yourself to perpetual silence.

caroline.

I should at least be privileged to talk about dress, amusements, and such lady-like topics.

mrs. b.

I have heard no trifling degree of ignorance of political economy betrayed in a conversation on dress. “What a pity,” said one lady, “that French lace should be so dear; for my part I make no scruple of smuggling it; there is really a great satisfaction in cheating the custom-house.” Another wondered she could so easily reconcile smuggling to her conscience; that she thought French laces and silks, and all French goods, should be totally prohibited; that she was determined never to wear any thing from foreign countries, let it be ever so beautiful; and that it was shameful to encourage foreign manufactures whilst our own poor were starving.

caroline.

What fault can you find with the latter opinion? It appears to me to be replete with humanity and patriotism.

mrs. b.

The benevolence of the lady I do not question; but without knowledge to guide and sense to regulate the feelings, the best intentions will be frustrated. The science of political economy is intimately connected with the daily occurrences of life, and in this respect differs materially from that of chemistry, astronomy, or any of the natural sciences; the mistakes we may fall into in the latter sciences can have little sensible effect upon our conduct, whilst our ignorance of the former may lead us into serious practical errors.

There is scarcely any history or any account of voyages or travels that does not abound with facts and opinions, the bearings of which cannot be understood without some previous acquaintance with the principles of political economy: besides, should the author himself be deficient in this knowledge, you will be continually liable to adopt his errors from inability to detect them. This was your case in reading Telemachus. Ignorance of the principles of political economy is to be discovered in some of the most elegant and sensible of our writers, especially amongst the poets. That beautiful composition of Goldsmith, the Deserted Village, is full of errors of this description, which, from its great popularity, are very liable to mislead the ill informed.

caroline.

I should almost regret to learn any thing which would lower that beautiful poem in my estimation.

mrs. b.

Its intrinsic merit as a poem is quite sufficient to atone for any errors in scientific principles. Truth is not, you know, essential to poetic beauty; but it is essential that we should be able to distinguish between truth and fiction.

caroline.

Well, after all, Mrs. B., ignorance of political economy is a very excusable deficiency in women. It is the business of Government to reform the prejudices and errors which prevail respecting it; and as we are never likely to become legislators, is it not just as well that we should remain in happy ignorance of evils which we have no power to remedy?

mrs. b.

When you plead in favour of ignorance, there is a strong presumption that you are in the wrong. If a more general knowledge of political economy prevented women from propagating errors respecting it, in the education of their children, no trifling good would ensue. Childhood is spent in acquiring ideas, adolescence in discriminating and rejecting those which are false; how greatly we should facilitate this labour by diminishing the number of errors imbibed in early youth, and by inculcating such ideas only as are founded in truth!

caroline.

Surely you would not teach political economy to children?

mrs. b.

I would wish that mothers were so far competent to teach it, that their children should not have any thing to unlearn; and if they could convey such lessons of political economy as Miss Edgeworth gives in her story of the Cherry Orchard, no one I should think would esteem such information beyond the capacity of a child.

caroline.

I thought I remembered that story perfectly, but I do not recollect in it a single word relative to political economy.

mrs. b.

The author has judiciously avoided naming the science, but that little tale contains a simple and beautiful exposition of the division of labour, the merit of which you would more highly appreciate if you were acquainted with its application to political economy. You would perhaps also allow children to hear the story of King Midas, whose touch converted every thing into gold.

caroline.

Is that also a lesson of political economy? I think, Mrs. B., you have the art of converting every thing you touch into that science.

mrs. b.

It is not my art, but the real nature of things. The story of King Midas shows, that gold alone does not constitute wealth, and that it is valuable only as it bears a due proportion to the more immediately useful productions of the earth.

caroline.

But children will not be the wiser for such stories unless you explain their application to political economy. You must give them the moral of the fable.

mrs. b.

The moral is the only part of a fable which children never read; and in this they are perfectly right, for a principle abstractedly laid down is beyond their comprehension. The application will be made as they advance in life. Childhood is the period for sowing the seed, not forcing the fruit; you must wait the due season if you mean to gather a ripe and plentiful harvest.

caroline.

Well, my dear Mrs. B., what must I do? You know that I am fond of instruction, and that I am not afraid of application. You may recollect what pleasure I took in the study of chemistry. If you could persuade me that political economy would be as interesting, and not more difficult, I would beg of you to put me in the way of learning it. Are there any lectures given on this subject? or could one take lessons of a master? for as to studying scientific books, I am discouraged by the difficulty of the terms: when the language as well as the subject is new, there are too many obstacles to contend with at first setting out.

mrs. b.

The language of a science is frequently its most difficult part, but in political economy there are but few technical terms, and those you will easily comprehend. Indeed, you have already a considerable stock of information on this subject, but your notions are so confused and irregular, such a mixture of truth and error, that your business will rather be to select, separate, and methodise what you already know, than to acquire new ideas. It is not in my power to recommend you a master on this subject; it has hitherto been taught only in public lectures at the universities, and latterly in London, by Mr. Macculloch, who, both by his writings and his clear method of teaching, has greatly contributed to the progress of the science.

Political economy has within these few years been much cultivated; besides the celebrated treatise of Adam Smith, who may be considered as the father of this science, several very excellent works have been more recently published, by Mr. Say, Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Malthus, Mr. Sismondi, and others; but it is true that they are not easy for beginners.

caroline.

But what then am I to do, Mrs. B.? I cannot attend those lectures, and I fear I shall never have courage to undertake the study of treatises which you allow to be difficult.

mrs. b.

Perhaps I may be able to smooth the way for you. It has been my good fortune to have passed a great part of my life in a society where this science has been a frequent topic of discussion, and the interest I took in it has induced me to study its principles in the works of the best writers on the subject; but I must tell you fairly, that I did not commence my studies by opening these works at random, or by consulting Adam Smith on an insulated point, before I had examined his plan, or understood his object. I knew that in order to learn I must begin at the beginning, and if you are of opinion that my experience can be of any service to you, and will be content to receive an explanation in a familiar manner of what has been discussed or investigated by men of acknowledged talent and learning, I will attempt to guide you through the first elements of the science, without, however, presuming to penetrate into its abstruse parts.

caroline.

Well, then, I am quite decided to make the attempt; you are but too good to me, Mrs. B., to allow me again to become your pupil. You have so much indulgence, however, that I am never afraid of exposing my ignorance by my enquiries, though I fear I shall put your patience to a severe test.