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Subject Area: Political Theory
Subject Area: History
Topic: The English Revolution

The propositions read. b - Sir William Clarke, The Clarke Papers. Selections from the Papers of William Clarke, vol. 1 [1901]

Edition used:

The Clarke Papers. Selections from the Papers of William Clarke, Secretary to the Council of the Army, 1647-1649, and to General Monck and the Commanders of the Army in Scotland, 1651-1660, ed. C.H. Firth (Camden Society, 1901). 4 vols.

Part of: The Clarke Papers. Selections from the Papers of William Clarke, 4 vols.

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The propositions read.b

Lieut. Gen.

Butt you would nott have a Parliament dissolved without the consent of the Houses in 120 dayes?

Col. Lambert.

[They may sit] longer then that, that except the Councill of State, and the Kinge shall thinke fitt; if you involve themselves in itt if they may sitt without the consent of both Housses.

Lieut. Gen.

They may bee adjourn’d if the King and Councill of State thinke fitt; itt may bee as convenient to have a Parliament continued as to [have it] out itself whether it will or noe.

If itt does nott conclude itt publique, as that itt bee heare read or noe. If there bee any thinge afterwards that shall bee desired to bee offer’d for any addition the Councill of Warre will meete, and the Agitators [may] send soe many as they shall select to gett any alteration; butt itt would nott bee read heere butt that itt bee passed by with silence.

Com̃. Ireton.

For either the passing those particulars heere read or such a particular as you last offer’d without a further weighing or consideration itt might bee inconvenient; and therefore I shall desire, that though there is noe man that findes anythinge of exception against any parte of the thinge that is read, yett that it may be referred to a less number that may weigh or consider all things.a

[These particulars are offered] nott for a present conclusion butt consideration; for I cannott say the thinges have bin soe consider’d as to satisfie my self in them.

Mr. Allen.

I shall only offer one worde. I thinke that the thinges in hand hee names are things of great weight, having relation to the setling of a Kingdome, which is a great worke; truly the worke wee all expect to have a share in, and desire that others may alsoe. I suppose itt is nott unknowne to you that wee are most of us butt young Statesmen, and nott well able to judge how longe such thinges which wee heare now read to us may bee to the ends for which they are presented; and for us out of judgment to give our assents to itt must take uppe some time that wee may deliberate uppon itt; and therfore I shall desire that wee may nott only name them [i.e. a committee] now, butt spend some time [in debate], when wee heare thinges unsatisfactory to the ends for which they are proposed.

Com̃. Ireton.

If that debate or consideration that is intended or desired [be that] that is most requir’d in such a Councill as this, I thinke itt cannott bee with soe much conveniencie butt when all men have heard [them] read, and had time to weigh them in their thoughts. I think that when we are never so well satisfied in the matter, such a select number are requisite for the perfecting of them in order and forme, soe as they may bee tendred for the service of the Kingdome.

Itt is proposed heere in order to a Councill of State, that there should bee a Councill of State to have the cheif command, both to have the command of the standing forces and of the Militia by sea or the Navy. Butt this Councill of State which commands them all to have noe dependancy of any of them by way of appointing officers. For the standing Militia of the Kingdome the [county] Committee[s are] to have power to name officers over them. Likewise for the Navy. The Councill of State [is to] have power to command the Navy, butt there are particular Commissioners to bee appointed for the ordering and regulating of itt, and appointing officers for the severall parts of the Navy.a

[b ]The propositions are printed in Rushworth, vii., 731. Old Parliamentary History, xvi., 212; Gardiner, Constitutional Documents, p. 232. The present discussion is on the second clause of the first head. Parliament might sit 240 days at the outside, and must sit at least 120 days.

[a ]Clause transposed.

[a ]At this point the report of the debate ends abruptly. The particular parts of the Army proposals referred to in Ireton’s last remarks are—Head III., clauses 1—6.